This interview was originally conducted in December 2022.
Meet Petro Marais, a South African-Australian traveller who has travelled to more than 119 countries. After becoming naturalised as an Australian citizen, Petro joined the Royal Australian Navy, which restricted her ability to travel. Upon being discharged from the military she decided to chase her dreams to travel the world.
Petro, you have quite an interesting background, so please tell us something about yourself. Where do you come from and where does your love for travelling come from?
Hi, firstly it is such a pleasure to do an interview with NomadMania again – even under not ideal circumstances. My first one was held in person with the founder Harry Mitsidis when we travelled to Somalia together for a trip of a lifetime whilst celebrating my 30th birthday in Mogadishu.
Quick background about me is that I was born in the late 80s in South Africa as a white South African during Apartheid. At the age of 12, we relocated to Brisbane, QLD Australia, When I was 16 I became a naturalised Australian citizen. I have never completed a full University degree but have studied Law, Justice and Film. I served as a linguist for nearly 9 years in the Royal Australian Navy and was discharged medically in 2016. Since then I have been going on a deep dive all around the world.
I will repeatedly ask myself this very question. Wondering if it was all the Southern African adventures my parents took me on as a child that created this adventurous spirit or if it was when we migrated to Australia when I was only 12 that instigated this sense of belonging nowhere whilst also belonging everywhere.
When I was 18 all I could dream of was having a career that would revolve around travel and it was where I did extensive research into joining the Royal Australian Navy to decide if this career choice would be a good fit. Not long after I was off to recruit school and going on some paid holidays but nowhere near enough.
How did you start travelling more seriously?
The short answer was I was bored with life.
The long answer was I have always dreamt of seeing the entire world. There were just restrictions as far as time and permission were concerned. There was a marriage, a career where I was not permitted to travel to half the world due to my security clearance and even just limited time off. Since I joined at a fairly young age the majority of my holidays were dedicated to either seeing my family or ex-husband when I could. I was lucky to go on a few international journeys with them.
But it was the moment I was set free. Within days I had booked a 3-month trip going to nearly 20 countries in Africa, the Middle East and Europe. I returned home after this trip and booked a one-way ticket again to Singapore with no set plan in mind. It was more than a year later before I finally went back and only because one of my sisters did a silly thing and planned a wedding.
In 2017 I was so proud of visiting 50 countries. This was the year where it changed and 2018 was the year I dipped my feet into the “dangerous” countries and have never really stopped – only paused during a time I am sure most of us paused travel but I am back at it again going full steam ahead now.
Are you one of the travellers that are counting countries? Is there some other travel goal that you are pursuing and can you tell me a bit more about it?
I think we all count countries or would at least bite the bullet of curiosity even when we claim we don’t. I do focus a little less on it but must admit I plan to visit every country – hopefully sooner rather than later (before 2030). I have gotten into regions a lot more in recent years.
I started to read books and do research into understanding all the geopolitics and divisions of the world for myself as opposed to just looking at a list. I have come to understand that the world is much more complicated than a list of 193 United Nations.
What are your biggest travel interests? Where do you go before you go everywhere else?
As soon as my bag is dropped off I will usually just start walking around and see what coffee I can find nearby. I will watch people – for me it’s the most intriguing part of how we are different yet connected. Without the people, it is just another church, mosque or town hall. Slow-overland travel is a great way to see the shift in habits, ethnic backgrounds and mannerisms – even within countries. I won’t have too much of a plan or commitments planned too far in advance. I can stay as long or as little as I like in each location. I may just have some idea of a “finish line” in mind knowing that in 2-6 weeks I need to be in country X to meet person Z and then everything else just comes with happenstance.
What were some of your biggest surprises on your travels so far? What about the most surprising countries (positive and negative)?
The one thing everyone would agree with is kindness from strangers who quickly turn into lifelong friends. It is no longer a surprise for me. I am always amazed at the lengths people will go to help you or to make you feel welcome in their home country when you have only just met. These actions are always a reminder to return the favour whenever someone comes to my home country.
I will start with a negative surprise to finish on a good note: The only country I did not like was Djibouti and for me, it was the hostility from the people. It was unpleasant walking through the city centre since you were hassled just knowing you have a phone and claiming I had to pay nearly $15 just for one snap. I came and I saw and may only return one day to visit Lac Abbe since I only went to Lac Assal – that was truly stunning but I do prefer a nicer welcome.
Last year I went on a trip to Angola. It was always a place connected with war for me since my dad was serving in the border war there just before I was born. I never knew how I would feel about visiting Angola with a different connection to it. I had entered from a remote border (Calai) and my first-moment people were helping me with everything. I was alone and no one had hassled me. Within my first hour, I had a sim card, water, and a proper 4WD bush taxi booked to take me to actual civilization.
After 19 hours when we arrived at 4 am one of the guys from the taxi had given me his room and then made sure the following morning I would get to the bus station. It also happened to be Country 100 for me and I met up with some friends a few days later in Luanda we had some wonderful adventures throughout the country so will now go down as a country with fond memories.
Can you recall some special travel stories to share with us? Something that stuck with you?
There are so many to choose from but I have to share the one that has changed me the most. I am very proud, and independent and rarely will ask for or accept help. Least of all from strangers. In 2018 I was flying to Baghdad via Bahrain. Before boarding I had tried to withdraw money for Iraq but had issues with the limits. My money then ended up stuck so here I was heading into the unknown worried I won’t have enough funds in Iraq. Another passenger had noticed me and I wasn’t too happy.
I was going to my first “scary country” so had no idea what to expect other than the picture the media painted. Upon landing he asked what my plan was and if I was ok. I explained the situation to him and that I have a flight in 9 hours so will just wait at the airport. He insisted that I should go stay at his house and his wife is waiting to pick him up.
It is very unusual of me to ever accept an offer like this but what followed was a stop for dinner, staying at a local’s house for a few hours of sleep, waking up early so they could take me to the old town for breakfast and show me a tiny bit of Bahrain. This is still my only visit to Bahrain and a life lesson of how kind strangers really can be especially in the middle east. So much fear has dissipated now and I accept many offers much more willingly.
What is it about travel that gets you excited the most and what keeps you going even when it is tough?
When I first began travelling, I was drawn to the popular destinations that are often featured in social media, television, and other media. However, as I continued to travel, I became more interested in discovering lesser-known places. My focus shifted towards seeking knowledge, understanding, comprehension, and compassion. I began to appreciate that there are many nations beyond the 193 recognized by the UN, which are often misunderstood and unknown.
For me, this has become a journey that extends beyond just visiting every UN-recognized country. I would like to encourage anyone reading this to explore these complexities further, even if you have no intention of visiting every country.
You don’t necessarily take the easiest route when travelling. Why is that and what do you gain from taking local buses instead of flying, etc?
Anyone can travel with enough time and money. Some people have more challenges based on which passport they have. I have one very strong passport and one semi-weak one so I do hold compassion for travellers who have additional hurdles to jump through before even being able to arrive in a country. I am young but also not that young to still have had a taste of travel before smartphones. With just a few clicks we can book a flight, bus, taxi and hotel.
Taking a more challenging route of arriving somewhere does allow me those elements of anticipation and excitement of arriving somewhere new. It’s a cliche to say that it’s not about the destination but the journey and there is so much truth to this. I don’t necessarily remember all the fine details of everything I did at the destinations but I vividly recall the amazing people I met getting there. Especially the ones not seated next to me on a flight.
One of the craziest was when I was waiting for 21 hours at the Egypt/Sudan border to cross. I was speaking Indonesian with a Sudanese girl at 1 am whilst lying on a stretcher underneath the stars. On one of my most recent trips, we took a two-day hollowed-out tree from Congo Brazzaville to Dzangha National Park in the Central African Republic.
I don’t encourage any females to ever do this solo and am happy to admit I would not have been able to. I am very thankful to the boys I travelled with to give me this opportunity to be able to join crazy adventures like this. It keeps travel exciting and daring and I get to experience the flip side of the coin. Because at the end of the day, I have plenty of privileges and I always want to remain cognizant of them.
How did your general view of the world change with travelling?
I would say the biggest impact it has had on me would be my political views which are now non-existent. I started right wing when I was younger and serving in the military (they always supported the military objectives financially). When studying justice I switched over to the left and now I have realised there is really no wrong or right way and we often become too emotionally invested in issues that have zero impact on our daily lives.
I believe in grassroots movements and treating others how you would like to be treated. To be a kind, understanding person and mostly an observer. None of us is Mother Teresa. I don’t want to live in a world of perpetual angst and turmoil. This life is very short and I am not ignorant of global issues. I am just trying to take the narrow road of remaining emotionally rational.
Let’s switch the topic to your recent troubles with NomadMania’s rules regarding travelling to Russia. You ended up being de facto the only member whose account got permanently deleted because of this, but you decided to come back. What is your perspective about everything that happened related to that issue?
Initially, I wasn’t sure if I would go. There was some kind of shame attached to even going in the first place and to get information on how to travel there I had asked questions anonymously. I hated hiding over this and realised feeling ashamed over travel freedom was not anything I wanted to encourage so I placed myself out there to travel shame and criticism hoping to change this.
For many years I knew the community to be a most supportive environment to encourage anyone to travel to some of the most controversial destinations. Something had changed since Covid when it was tolerated to shame people traveling in the first place, not wearing a mask, or having different views.
How did you see our referendum and the aftermath that followed? Is this why you decided to return to NomadMania?
I returned to Nomad Mania because I do appreciate what it stands for. I am not a fighter and do not hold any ill feelings towards anyone. This was never a personal feud for me with an organisation or any individual. I consider Harry a friend and I do sympathise with him and being so closely connected to this war. I have friends from Ukraine and when I speak to them about what their family has to endure or even how it has impacted their own lives in getting married it breaks my heart that anyone has to endure this.
I also met a lady who is half Russian/half Ukrainian but was born in Belarus. Her entire livelihood has been destroyed and personally holds no support towards Russia or Belarus but is personally punished by the sanctions. We met on the day she went to apply for her visa so she can leave and visit her partner from the Netherlands.
There are many respectable travellers, on and off NomadMania, who think that travelling to Russia now is simply not a great idea. What do you think about that?
There are differing views on the importance of travel freedom and the decision of where one chooses to visit. While some respectable travellers may disagree with this perspective, it is important to remain non-judgmental towards their choices. Selective morality can become an issue if we start nitpicking destinations and deciding which ones are deemed acceptable based on world leaders’ decisions.
I recently formed personal connections with Sudan, having spent seven weeks there in 2022 to visit a close friend. While weighing my decision to travel to Russia last year, Sudan crossed my mind, knowing the current military government’s responsibility for civilian deaths and the millions of people lost during the genocide in Darfur.
However, I did not see travellers questioning whether they should visit Sudan. Instead, they reflected on the kindness of the Sudanese people. Currently, the situation in Sudan is dire, with scarce resources and an active conflict zone causing the Sudanese to flee, including many of my friends. The focus should not be on whether we agree with Sudanese leaders in recent years, but rather on the priorities and behaviours of travellers passing through and the footprint we leave behind.
As travellers, we must question our priorities and behaviours when visiting places that are facing challenges. Do we prioritise our anticipated trips being cancelled over the fact that people have lost their homes? Are we checking in on the people we personally know in these places? Are we speaking up about these issues, or are we centering ourselves in the midst of someone else’s tragedy? It is important to be mindful of the impact we have as travellers and to strive for responsible and respectful tourism.
Can you tell us more about why you went there and what was the whole idea behind that?
I will start with all the reasons I went to Russia in the first place because there are multiple and no one clear one. I guess it even goes back as far as my birth and if one of these reasons weren’t present I may have never even ended up there.
- I was born in South Africa as a white Afrikaner. I was 6 when Apartheid ended but if you know your history South Africa had a multitude of sanctions against them. I can be called the Russian of the ’80s. Was it my fault, should I feel guilty for being born? For something I had zero control over and could never change? I can personally sympathize and relate with people who have zero control or say over what their “leaders” choose to do to others who are also innocent.
- During my time in the military I would always need to get clearance for anywhere I would travel to. Despite being an Indonesian linguist for most of my time in the military I was not even permitted to visit Bali. I had this organisation dictate where and when I could travel – one who had paid my bills so in a way I could tolerate and accept it.
- I don’t have an unlimited budget so there is also working out a balance with transportation. At the time I was in Georgia and decided I would like to visit Abkhazia. I quickly learnt the border is only open from Russia. I don’t need a visa for Russia so this option became more appealing.
- In 2019 I had to semi-put my travels on hold for 6 months whilst being stuck in South Africa to get my passport reissued. It was a very painful process since the SA Department of Home Affairs insisted my parents would need to fly from Australia to South Africa and verify my identity. After a lot of back and forth, they finally agreed that my grandmother can verify that I am who I say I am. The only reason I went through this ordeal was to get a passport that would enable me to visit Russia visa-free. As an Australian, I would need to wait 10 years since I was discharged from the military to be permitted to visit Russia (2026). I had not been yet.
- During Covid I was in Australia for 2 years. It was one of the strictest countries in the world and if I returned I would need to pay close to 3000 AUD to stay in a hotel for 2 weeks to quarantine. Because I was studying and would not be able to fly in easily. I was impacted differently than most with travel limitations for 2 years and I could not stand the feelings and emotions in regards to being controlled further or again on where and when I am free to travel somewhere.
- Lastly, this is a very complex issue I wanted to understand. I did study Justice with a major in Policy and Governance. I have also already expressed that my motivation for travel has developed beyond pretty sights. If we just read about places and wars we will only ever access biased opinion pieces. With the time I dedicated at film school, I hope to one day produce a documentary when I find the time and perfect passion story about the world that can hopefully make it a better place. My favourite quote has always been “The camera is a gun that shoots 24 frames per second”.
What were your conclusions after that whole trip?
Travel is always about the people and not world leaders. The amount of support I have received is immeasurable. A Russian guy I had not even met yet (Have now) had given me his credit card details just so I can pay for hotels and buy train tickets. He just had faith that I would reimburse him in the end. If not for that I would have run out of money whilst there.
I am from the southern hemisphere so even things such as WW2 or the history of the USSR, Stalin etc were completely foreign concepts I had very little knowledge and understanding of. My time was brief but it was eye-opening and I would feel comfortable discussing some of the history attached to this region now. Not even recent events. This should always be one of the reasons we are visiting places in the first place.
What are your plans for future travels?
I relocated to Koh Samui, Thailand 6 months ago. Im trying to establish a balance between travel and prioritising health. I’ve been mostly nomadic since 2016 and personally recognised when you don’t have somewhere to call home it can negatively impact your mental health as well as physical health. I live on a stunning island that makes it feel like I’m always travelling with the added bonus of stability.
I’m taking shorter trips every month now and am focusing more on new countries. I have just returned from another wild overlanding journey through West Africa where I overlanded all the way from Mauritania to Côte d’Ivoire over three months. This was probably my last long and more extreme trip for a while since coming ‘home’ I realised how much I missed it and towards the end physically I ended up sick for a few weeks unfortunately.
Finally, we have one question that we ask all of our guests: if you could invite 4 people from any era to dinner, who would your guests be and why?
William Shakespeare – Find out if it was Francis Bacon or William Shakespeare who is responsible for some of the most influential writings in history.
Christopher Colombus – Ask about any lands that he may have seen not recorded in history. Modern explorers only visit places we have heard of and rarely seek places not already shared online.
Charles Marais – The first Marais to flee to South Africa in 1688 – Understand my roots better since my lineage originates from being a refugee from Les Marais, Paris, France as a French Huguenot
Paul Kruger – So many stories and disturbing photos I have seen from the settler days in South Africa, I want to know if he is a hero or a villain.
Don’t forget to follow Petro’s adventures on Instagram and YouTube!
