In a world where most people dream of visiting a handful of countries in their lifetime, Alvaro Rojas has now been to ALL of them — TWICE. At just 36, the Spanish adventurer, founder of Wander Expeditions, and now one of only four people verified to have completed two full rounds of all 193 UN countries, has redefined what it means to explore the world. We first spoke to Alvaro in 2020, when he had just become the youngest Spaniard to visit every country. Five years later, his journey has evolved from personal conquest to community, from solo missions to group impact.
But this isn’t just a story about travel milestones. It’s one of reinvention, resilience, and radical honesty. From navigating the upheaval of a global pandemic to launching a thriving travel company, from divorce to fatherhood, from dopamine to peace — Alvaro’s second lap around the globe has been just as much an inward journey as a physical one.
We sat down with him to talk about what’s changed, what’s stayed the same, and what it really means to go everywhere, again.
Alvaro, we first interviewed you in 2020. What has changed in your life since then?
Literally everything.
These five years between visiting every country for the first time and doing it again have been transformative on every level. When I finished visiting every country for the first time, I was married and expecting my first child. Now, I’m divorced and have two wonderful kids, aged 5 and 4.
At the start of 2020, I was fully focused on travel content creation. Then COVID hit, and with it came the opportunity to pivot. I launched Wander Expeditions: a travel agency that curates group trips for the fun and fearless. I’m still traveling about 50% of the year like I was back then, but now I’ve gone from simply inspiring people to travel to actually bringing them along for the journey, building an incredible community of like-minded adventurers.
It’s been amazing to witness the impact of what we’ve created. The sacrifices and effort have been big — but so was the reward.
You are really well known in the community both as a traveller and now as a trip organizer. Tell us a little about the trips you organize and what motivates you to continue doing them.
It’s been almost 5 years of Wander Expeditions: over 165 expeditions across 85+ countries, with 700 clients from more than 100 nationalities. Wander Expeditions is built for people who believe travel isn’t just about the destination or the journey — it’s about the company. We’ve redefined group travel and made it fun. No forced free time, no local guides rambling into a microphone.
Our groups are designed for fun, fearless travelers who want to create real connections — not only with locals through our curated experiences and itineraries, but also with like-minded, adventure-seeking souls. We realized many people don’t have travel friends who are available (or willing) to dive into off-the-beaten-path destinations — so we built a community around that need.
Our mission has always been to bring misunderstood destinations closer, to build bridges between cultures, and to shatter stereotypes. And in the process, an incredible community has flourished. Our repeat rate is huge — some people have joined us for 22 expeditions! It’s honestly wild.
You have named Afghanistan as your favourite country, a controversial choice. Tell us more about this.
This is definitely the most common question any extreme traveler gets — I’m sure you can all relate. For a long time, I never had a solid answer. It always felt impossible to pick just one place. But eventually, I challenged myself to make a choice if I absolutely had to. And every time, the same country kept coming to mind.
I know some people may find it controversial, especially those concerned with being politically correct. But one of the biggest lessons I’ve learned over the past five years is that I care a lot less about other people’s opinions than I used to.
For me, Afghanistan is the place where I’ve felt most alive. I’ve visited seven times, spent over 100 days there, and brought hundreds of people along. In fact, it was the destination for our very first Wander Expedition, and it’s become our most popular trip — we’ve run 16 expeditions there since June 2022.
What makes Afghanistan so special to me isn’t just the stunning landscapes or the rich history. It’s the friendships I’ve built — the Afghan friends who welcome me back, the shop owners I keep visiting, the drivers and fixers who go above and beyond to keep us safe. It’s the deep-rooted culture that remains remarkably untouched by globalization, the incredible ethnic diversity, the food… all of it.
There’s a unique energy to Afghanistan that’s hard to put into words, but it has an undeniable pull. And for all those reasons, it’s the country I call my favorite.
Now, let’s move to the main motivation for this interview. In 2020 you became the youngest Spaniard to complete 193. You have now just become the fourth man that we can verify who has done every country twice, and the youngest to achieve this at the age of 36. Congratulations. How do you feel about this now?
To your question: what excites me isn’t being the youngest to reach this goal — it’s the fact that only four people have ever done it. The other three are: Gunnar Garfors, Slawek Muturi and Harry Mitsidis. I love having a hard, clear goal to focus on. It keeps me disciplined, fully engaged, and, most importantly, constantly striving to become a better version of myself. That’s where my energy, drive, and vitality come from.
Being the youngest is more about comparison and ego — and while it’s great for marketing, because it helps extend our purpose and hopefully inspires others to chase their own travel dreams, that’s not what motivates me at the core. I’m in competition with myself, not with anyone else.
Are you having a party? What do you expect of the celebration?
It’s a three-day event where we’re not celebrating my goal, but celebrating life and the friendships we’ve built.
Honestly, selfishly, it feels almost like a wedding — having everyone who made the effort to be here, all my friends gathered in one place. I really can’t imagine a better finale to this chapter.
What motivated you to do the second round?
I always say: who you are as a traveler is really defined by the trips you choose to do after visiting every country.
As I kept returning to these challenging places, sometimes aimlessly, just for the joy of it — chasing other travel goals like festivals, remote regions, or wonders I’d missed the first time — I eventually realized I was actually getting pretty close to finishing a second round.
This second journey also gave me a beautiful opportunity to give countries a second chance. Travel is so subjective — your experience can completely depend on things like weather, your health, or who you’re traveling with. Going back to every country twice allowed me to see them through a new lens, and often to change my perspective. I think there’s something really beautiful about that.
Visiting every country a second time was purely for myself. No one else.
What were the biggest challenges this time?
Logistically, it was actually quite easy for most of the “hard destinations.” Through Wander, I was able to cover them in the best way possible — with incredible local teams and a fun group of people. In fact, it sparked a lot of creativity for us. We discovered new expeditions we hadn’t initially thought would work so well, like Central America, the Pacific, or the Caribbean.
This evolution helped shift Wander from being seen primarily as a travel agency for conflict zones to becoming a community people want to join for the group experience, even in regions where safety isn’t necessarily the issue, but where having a group makes the experience much richer.
Surprisingly, my biggest challenges came in the easier destinations. I remember being in places like Huánuco and Pucallpa in Peru, trying to explore something new on this second round, and thinking to myself: “What am I even doing here?” To be honest, group travel has kind of ruined solo travel for me. After traveling so much, I struggle to find the motivation to explore tertiary sights simply because they’re new, especially if I’m doing it alone.
I think the hardest stretch of this goal is between 130 and 159 countries. At that point, you’ve seen so much, but you’re still a long way from the finish line. Pushing through those last regions, often solo, in places that weren’t particularly exciting anymore — that was the real sacrifice. Honestly, at this stage in my life, I’d often rather stay home, work, and stick to my routine than venture into remote places alone just to tick a box.
Aside from the mental aspect, the toughest logistical challenges were obviously Sudan and North Korea. I loosely planned for a few potential windows toward the end and was incredibly lucky to have a shot at both. In North Korea, we were able to participate in the Pyongyang Marathon — the first one held in five years — just before they closed their borders to tourism again. Who knows when that opportunity will come back? It was one of those rare miracles I simply couldn’t pass up.
Compared to the first time, was the second time easier or harder, and how?
The other big factor is that the financial cost of travel is now covered by the very nature of my business. That’s why I feel like I was in a unique position to realistically attempt this goal again — and probably why only four people have ever done it.
Don’t get me wrong — it’s still very challenging and requires a lot of personal sacrifice. But if you’ve built the right lifestyle around it, it does become more manageable.
What (more) did you learn about yourself the second time round?
So much. Honestly, I feel like I’ve lived multiple lives over these past five years. I went through a divorce, experienced love again, faced heartbreak, stopped seeking validation from others, found my purpose, and fully embraced even the darker parts of who I am. Most importantly, I realized that I’m the only one responsible for everything that happens in my life.
I don’t assign blame to others, and I don’t see myself as a victim. I took control, accepted responsibility for my actions, and intentionally created the life I want — through discipline. Like I mentioned earlier, I’m no longer chasing fleeting dopamine hits, but instead aiming for a state of peace — removing people and situations that create unnecessary noise or conflict.
I’ve also learned not to assign blame or judgment to others, because in the end, those reactions are just reflections of our own wounds. By consciously choosing my thoughts, I’ve been able to shape better emotions, build a stronger mindset, and ultimately use that discipline to create my lifestyle, my business, and my goals.
Today, I live a much more abundant life — one that no longer stems from fear.
Did your impressions of some countries change, for better or worse? Can you name a few countries where your opinion shifted considerably?
In fact, I’ve improved my opinion of many countries on this second round. A good example is Djibouti. My first visit was years ago, back when very few foreigners came through unless they were military. Just walking around downtown Djibouti City alone and taking photos could get you into trouble. It was a pretty hostile vibe, and to make things worse, I made the mistake of going in the middle of summer — it was brutally hot. Back then, my budget was tighter, so I was roughing it in a small, dirty hotel. Overall, it just wasn’t a great experience.
The second time around, everything was different. I returned with a great group on a Wander Expedition. We came in winter, right during whale shark season. We rented a sailboat and spent the first day out at sea, swimming with these incredible creatures. On the second day, thanks to the cooler temperatures, we explored Lac Assal and the volcanic fields — absolutely epic landscapes. This time, downtown felt friendlier too. People seemed much more accustomed to tourists after 8 years, taking photos wasn’t an issue, and we connected with some really welcoming locals. Of course, having a better budget, better accommodations, and curated activities makes a huge difference as well.
In most cases, my second visits have actually elevated my first impressions — which is one of the beautiful things about revisiting countries.
Give us one memorable story from the second time round that will stay with you forever.
I’ll give you two. The first was reaching Timbuktu after 40 hours lying in a fishing boat, trying to stay hidden from all the dangers along the shores of the Niger River. It was thrilling — and absolutely worth it — when I finally arrived in this legendary city I had dreamed of visiting for so long.
The second was entering the Pyongyang Stadium to run the Marathon this year. Having 50,000 Koreans cheering you on during a sporting event is something most of us never get to experience. The energy is incredible — it gives you a rush and a drive to run farther than you ever thought you could!
So… is a third time round on the cards?
Probably. But not for validation or for myself — it would be for someone else. I want to show the world to my kids, which will help my +3 count. Of course, I’ll also keep leading some expeditions because it’s something I truly enjoy, and that will contribute as well.
What I can say for sure is that it won’t happen anytime soon. I’m not willing to keep sacrificing other things for the sake of my travel career. I feel very at peace with everything I’ve seen. There are only a few things left on my wishlist.
Without looking at your answer last time – if you could invite any 4 people to dinner from any period of history, who would you invite and why?
Boy, I can’t remember what I wrote last time… but if I had to pick today, I’d go with:
- Cristiano Ronaldo: for his incomparable work ethic, discipline, and for being the best at what he does for so many decades — and still going, despite the constant criticism.
- Chingis Khan: because it’s wild to me that one of the biggest mass murderers in history, who wiped out entire cities and civilizations, rarely gets any real shame. I’d love to understand what was going through his mind.
- Plato: or an equivalent high-level philosopher. It amazes me how they were able to provide answers to timeless human issues that are still completely relevant today.
- Magellan: I’m fascinated by his vision, leadership, and courage. His expedition to circumnavigate the world in 1519–1522 (completed by Elcano after his death) is, in my opinion, the greatest exploration feat in history — and yet, it’s one of the most underrated stories. There are no movies or shows about it. Not many people know of it.
I actually checked my picks from last time: Columbus, Magellan, Marco Polo, and Alexander. Not bad! But I’m sticking to my new four.
